Saturday, March 08, 2008 "My reply to Jonathan"

Saturday, March 08, 2008

"My reply to Jonathan"

From Julie's Keyboard:

Let it snow! Let it snow! Let it snow!

We have something in our part of TN that we don't get to see too often. There's a nice blanket of snow on the ground this morning. But we better hurry and get our play out because it's melting fast. It's March and Easter is almost here. So are the lovely butter cups and early sprigs of green coming up in the lawns. It's a super blessing to live in an area where one gets to observe changes in the seasons. This year we are really excited about this snow because we seldom get this much.

For the record, I wanted to mention the fact that our children in children's church on Sundays have been praying for at least one good snow this year. (Enough to make a snowman.) It was looking more and more like it just wasn't going to happen. Then, guess what? Here it is! I can't wait to see them all in the morning and celebrate another of the many victories these youngsters are putting their faith out for.

OK. I hope that our theology doesn't lend us to think that the children shouldn't be encouraged to ask the Lord for things like a good snow. We know that God's Word teaches us to be concerned for the things of His Kingdom and how to use His Word and our Faith in It to get results needed spiritually. This we practice doing too. Their testimonies of things in their everyday lives is such an encouragement to each of them and everyone else who gets to hear such a witness.

The principles of God's Word at work in the lives of children who dare to believe can reap awesome results. Oh, for child like faith in each of us. Oh, for the ability to trust Him completely, not to let cares that surround us choke out His Truth and the ability to stand upon It. He's made a complete work. He's finished His course. He's fixed the playing ground for us. What more do we need? Why can't we get up and take Him at His Word?

This is our daily walk in Him. As we listen for that still small voice within to guide us on our journey, may we remember to take the choice that aligns itself with His instructions. It may not look easy. It may be in opposition to what our feelings and emotions would dictate. But, if it's based on His Word, it will not fail.

Enjoy your week. Play in this snow, if you have it. Let's not miss out on the many blessings He's sending our way, while we intimately worship our Creator.

In His Love,
Julie

Psalm 37:4 "Delight thyself also in the Lord; and He shall give thee the desires of thine heart."

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"My reply to Jonathan"

Jonathan,

I appreciate your comment posted last week, I get very few comments so I was excited see you had posted. I was a little disappointed though that you seemed to imply that I had not done my home work.

From my brief visit to your web blog you seem to be a fine young man, well educated no doubt. So if I read you wrong please forgive me. But I just got the impression that you were not impressed with my research, it seems you feel you have an advantage over my ignorance of our historical past.

No doubt, to your credit, I’m sure throughout your education you have acquired much more knowledge of History than I will probably ever know.

Having said that, I want to turn to you commit about Washington’s picture I posted on last weeks blog. You stated, "If you do some digging in the primary sources, you'll see that the picture of Washington praying that you reproduce is almost certainly based on an historical fraud."

I will grant you, I was not there, but may I assume you were not either. I am sure you are aware of the source from which that painting was inspired, but for those who may be reading and don’t, I will post it below.

[Our chief source is the eyewitness testimony of Isaac Potts, a Valley Forge resident who was 26 years old at the time of the encampment. Like most other Quakers, he was opposed to the war, but remained at Valley Forge during its occupation by the American forces, supervising the grinding of the grain which Washington ordered neighboring farmers to bring to his army. The fullest account of Potts’ testimony is in the "Diary and Remembrances" of the Rev. Nathaniel Randolph Snowden (1770-1851), an ordained Presbyterian minister and a graduate of Princeton. SOURCE: Rev. Nathaniel Randolph Snowden, Diary and Remembrances (Original Manuscript at the Historical Society of Pennsylvania; Call no. PHi.Am.1561-1568). Snowden was an ordained Presbyterian minister, graduate of Princeton Seminary with a degree from Dickinson College. Mr. Snowden was born in Philadelphia January 17, 1770 and died November 12, 1851. His writings cover a period from youth to 1846.

Potts was not the only man who claimed to see Washington praying at Valley Forge. A quite different account was recorded in an article in The Aldine Press, and was based on the author’s conversations with Revolutionary War veterans. In this account, Washington was seen kneeling at silent prayer in a barn where his white horse was kept. Some have construed the differences between this and the Potts account as evidence that both were legendary. The more probable explanation is that each records a separate instance -- in other words, that Washington, like any prayerful man facing a crisis, prayed more than once.]

["I was riding with Mr. Potts near to the Valley Forge where the army lay during the war of ye Revolution, when Mr. Potts said, 'Do you see that woods & that plain? There laid the army of Washington. It was a most distressing time of ye war, and all were for giving up the Ship but that great and good man. In that woods (pointing to a close in view) I heard a plaintive sound as of a man at prayer. I tied my horse to a sapling & went quietly into the woods.

To my astonishment I saw the great George Washington on his knees alone, with his sword on one side and his cocked hat on the other. He was at Prayer to the God of the Armies, beseeching to interpose with his Divine aid, as it was ye Crisis & the cause of the country, of humanity & of the world. Such a prayer I never heard from the lips of man. I left him alone praying.

I went home & told my wife. We never thought a man could be a soldier & a Christian, but if there is one in the world, it is Washington. We thought it was the cause of God & America could prevail."

Source: Eyewitness testimony of Isaac Potts, a Valley Forge resident who shared the following story with the Rev. Nathaniel Randolph Snowden (1770-1851), who then recorded it in his "Diary and Remembrances."]

Now I suppose if you wanted to find someone to discredit just about any historical event in history you could probably find one. To say this event didn’t really happen doesn’t change anything, because the big painting hanging on the wall in the White House, of Washington Praying beside his horse still portrays the character of that great man. If he perhaps didn’t pray that day of which the painting draws it’s inspiration, he no doubt prayed that day somewhere, that day and everyday.

[Henry Muhlenberg, would note his faith with approval:"

"I heard a fine example today, namely, that His Excellency General Washington rode around among his army yesterday and admonished each and every one to fear God, to put away wickedness that has set in and become so general, and to practice the Christian virtues. From all appearances, this gentleman does not belong to the so-called world of society, for he respects God's Word, believes in the atonement through Christ, and bears himself in humility and gentleness. Therefore, the Lord God has also singularly, yea, marvelously, preserved him from harm in the midst of countless perils, ambuscades, fatigues, etc., and has hitherto graciously held him in His hand as a chosen vessel."]

Now Jonathan, I want to look at your commit concerning John Adams being a proud Unitarian . I’m not quit sure why you brought that subject up, it had nothing to do with last weeks postings, but since you did bring it up I will address it.

Today's liberal Unitarian Christians, who more commonly go by the name "Unitarian Christian" than conservative Unitarians, generally do not believe in the Virgin Birth, the deity of Christ, or Biblical inerrancy.

Unitarianism is the belief in the single personality of God, in contrast to the doctrine of the Trinity (three persons in one God). It is the philosophy upon which the modern Unitarian movement was based, and, according to its proponents, is the original form of Christianity. Unitarian Christians believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as found in the New Testament and other early Christian writings, and hold him up as an exemplar. Adhering to strict monotheism, they maintain that Jesus was a great man and a prophet of God, perhaps even a supernatural being, but not God himself. Unitarians believe in the moral authority, but not necessarily the divinity, of Jesus.

In a letter found in primary sources John Adams makes a statement to Samuel Miller concerning Jesus. John Adams states, "But Jesus has taught us, that a future state is a social state, when he promised to prepare places in his Father's house of many mansions for his disciples."

Here referring to God as being Jesus Father clearly does not hold to Unitarians beliefs. You posted a quote from Adams stating, [Re Jedidiah Morse, the following is a salty comment that John Adams directed at him based on their theological disputes (Morse was an enemy of Unitarianism and Adams was a proud Unitarian):

I thank you for your favour of the 10th and the pamphlet enclosed, "American Unitarianism." I have turned over its leaves and have found nothing that was not familiarly known to me.
In the preface Unitarianism is represented as only thirty years old in New England. I can testify as a Witness to its old age. Sixty five years ago my own minister the Reverend Samuel Bryant, Dr. Johnathan Mayhew of the west Church in Boston, the Reverend Mr. Shute of Hingham, the Reverend John Brown of Cohasset & perhaps equal to all if not above all the Reverend Mr. Gay of Hingham were Unitarians. Among the Laity how many could I name, Lawyers, Physicians, Tradesman, farmers!

John Adams to Jedidiah Morse, May 15, 1815. Adams Papers (microfilm), reel 122, Library of Congress.]

That is not surprising knowing John Adams acquaintances with all religions.

John Adams stated, "Before I was twelve years of age, I necessarily became a reader of polemical writings of religion, as well as politics, and for more than seventy years I have indulged myself in that kind of reading, as far as the wandering, anxious, and perplexed kind of life, which Providence has compelled me to pursue, would admit. I have endeavored to obtain as much information as I could of all the religions which have ever existed in the world. - - - - John Adams. Primary Source material.

Future more, John Adams was adamant about teaching his son John Quincy Adams his religious faith, John Quincy stated, "My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away [evade or object to]. . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances [permits] His disciples in asserting that He was God." - - - -John Quincy Adams.

The Select Writings of John and John Quincy Adams, Adrian Koch and William Peden, editors (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1946), p. 292, to John Adams on January 3, 1817.

Here John Quincy asserts that Jesus was God which is in direct conflict to a Unitarian belief.
Jonathan, I don’t mean to approach you with the same arrogance that I perceived you may have directed toward me, but I must say I can not believe based upon John Adams writings that he held to Unitarian beliefs.

Now, having said all of that, if by some means one could prove beyond a doubt that John Adams was a Unitarian, what would that change? If you read all his writings concerning religious affairs, he was a strong supporter of the Christian religion and it’s denominations. His moral character is a challenge to us all to come up higher. His faith in God and understanding of His Providence over our Great Nation is as inspiring as any you will find.

Jonathan, I don’t have a collage degree, I don’t claim do have anything but the ability to read. I have chosen to use that ability to study the original words of our founders as it pertains to our religious heritage and derive from them what they believed and hoped for as best I can.

Commentaries on these writings can be helpful, but the writers of these commentaries can also be misleading, so I reframe from putting weight upon them and just let the Founders speak for themselves. I find more confidence in them knowing what they said, than a commentary telling me what they said.

Jonathan, thanks for reading and posting your thoughts, may God bless you and give you guidance throughout you life.

David